New From Colorado

[rockhound]

Hi all,
I'm new to this site and would like to briefly introduce myself.
I am also new to this art but have excellent prerequisites that will work well in helping me achieve my knifemaking goals.
After internet researching for about the last two weeks I finally stumbled upon this site which appears to be an outstanding source of information!
I look forward to digging in here and learning all that I can. I realize that this will be a long learning process and I promise to have more questions than answers.
Thank you for this resource!

[Ray Rogers]

Howdy, Rockhound and welcome! What are your knife making goals?

[rockhound]

Hi Ray,
Thank you for the welcome!
My end-goal at this time is to gain the skills necessary to create fixed-handle knives which have mineral/gemstone handles and variations. Not for re-sale purposes but more to satisfy me and serve as another creative outlet. Besides that... I live at close to 10K ft above sea level and the winters are looooong here, haha.
I realize that this is a huge goal (stone handles) and I am many knives away from gaining these skills.... but that is what I would eventually like to do. I admire the knife works of Jay Fisher and his creations are a huge inspiration.... but at age 50, I know that there's probably not enough time in my life to get THAT good.
I am an experienced woodcrafter and lapidary hobbyist. I own an Inland swap-top trim/cabbing machine and a Lortone trim/cabber as well. I could create small stone knife scales at this point (from pre-cut slabs) but will eventually need a diamond band saw for stone if I wanna get serious. I am capable of good stone work so hopefully I'll be able to tie that in eventually.
I need to learn the proper basics and nuances of knife making or assembly first, this I know.
I am a bit of an artist, have great attention to detail, and much patience... so I reckon this may be right up my alley. I only wish I'd have thought of it 30 years ago!
I have been learning much about different types of blade materials so far. I don't know that I will ever reach the level of crafting metal blades. For now I will be happy to learn the basics of assembly, parts, etc... I'm getting there.
I was going to start with a fixed blade "kit" but instead bought a small "skinner" blank (440c, 56-58RC) for next to nothing. This will be my first practice assembly and assuredly, nothing fancy. A basic fixed handle, 2-pin with some thin bookend wood scales.
Anyway, sorry to blab on and on but that's kinda the gist of my goals at this time.

[Ray Rogers]

Kits blades are a great way to start and your goal sounds within reach probably sooner than you realize. However, just because a thing can be done doesn't mean it should be, i.e., there is a reason you rarely see knives with stone handles. I guess there could be a lot of reasons but a couple stand out. One is that they are terribly easy to break if you drop them. Another is that they concentrate a great deal of weight in the handle which can adversely affect the balance of smaller knives. And, they tend to be slippery when covered with slimy stuff. Of course, if you intend just to display them in a cabinet then anything goes but on a using knife heavy, slick, rock hard handles aren't most people's first choice.

Winters are pretty long over here too but at least I don't need an oxygen tank to walk down to the creek...

[rockhound]

I hear ya regarding the practicality/functionality aspects of stone handles.
I'm not a knife maker but I know my minerals and gemstones well. Hear me out...
The "slickness" factor is not one that can be avoided. Balance issues can be successfully addressed and overcome using several methods however.
Regarding fragility... there is truth to that if the incorrect hardness of mineralized stone is used to fabricate the handle scales. Another factor that may contribute to fragility can be attributed to improper adhesives, epoxies, or chemicals that could invade the mineral and effect it adversely. Pre-existing fractures or cleavage in some cases could also detract from useability. Selection of mineralized material is the most critical factor. Many people think that typical gemstone and minerals are fragile as glass, or brittle. This is not true in most cases. While some minerals do possess these undesirable properties... many others are very well suited for the task in terms of durability. Knowing your minerals is critical.
Admittedly, I am an armchair geologist and own a placer mine near the Wyoming border. By-products from the mine include Unakite which is one suitable material that is readily accessible to me.
If I were to incorporate gemstone or mineral on a larger knife handle it would be more in terms of banding or possibly small inlays. On the smaller knives though (like skinners, bird knives, etc) I don't think it's too terribly impractical if the nuances are addressed well, other than the slickery factor. A suitable mineral with good hardness is not necessarily "heavy". The tang could also be ported to compensate for balance.

[Ray Rogers]

Well, we're all about experimenting here so we look forward to seeing your work AND reading the results of the comprehensive testing we know you'll do once the knives are ready for the field....

[rockhound]

At the very least, I think that a series of drop tests would definitely be in order and I am willing to make the sacrifice in the better interest of science.
but....
considering I am still an absolute neophyte at knife making, it will take some time for me to even get to the level of creating a test piece.
I think that the possibility of stone handles is quite a way down the road for me yet... and by that time who knows? I may have decided it was a poor goal based on knowledge gained. It would be fun to combine my lapidary with knife making at some point though.
anyway, it's fun to entertain the thought.

[Ray Rogers]

I think lapidary and knife work can go together just fine and many have done it successfully. Not usually with full sized scales of stone but they have found ways to blend the two. I have no doubt you'll find the right balance ....

[Crex]

Welcome Rockhound.
I kind of came in from the opposite direction. I've been making knives most my life and took up lapidary to possibly add more bling to my knives (plus I've always been interested in geology, prospecting and lapidary). Well, best laid plans thing....my style of knives don't lend themselves to much stone work, just on occasion. Still cut and cab from time to time.
Have to agree with the weight issues that Ray brings up. Small knife - no real issue per say, but I approach my knifemaking with use and service first so weight gets critical fast enough. However I must say I have seen some very beautiful stone work done in conjunction with cutlery over the years.
Fragility, as you say, is relative to mineral selection and handle design. Some really tough stones out there, like jade. Just got to know your rocks. I saw a nice jade handled knife that had been sand blasted textured in a few esthetically well placed areas for added grip....looked/felt really good.
Another issue for a "user" knife would be temperature....in the colder climates, a stone or (metal, for the matter) handle could become quite uncomfortable skinning out an elk or moose.

There are some really nice quality folder kits out there as well that would lend themselves to lapidary handle work. I believe there is a sub-forum on this site all about them. Kits are a good way to learn the mechanics of a knife for a beginner. Metalurgy is a different matter and can get really deeply technical. You'll have to decide how far you want to go in that direction.

I say do it! It's what you want to do and you have good support skills. You are not too old! With the knowledge and skill factors you bring to the table you get to jump line on many beginner and intermediate makers. Plus you have more practiced discipline to get the details right one step at a time (a lapidary thing).
So.....shutup on the "old" issue! Go have fun and let us see what you come up with.

[Doug Lester]

I can't remember which of the boards that I saw it on but there is a maker in Italy who has posted knifes that he made with marble handles. Very much art knives however, but I guess that you could carry one if you accept the limitations and risks. They definitely caught everyone's attention but you have to do a good job on the knife blade and the handle.

Doug

[rockhound]

Carl,
Thank you so much for that reply. Everything you said makes sense and really helps to put this in a better perspective for me. I really have a lot to learn... but that's the beauty of it for me. I sincerely enjoy being a beginner at something and the learning process. I'm very careful which pursuits that I choose to invest my time in, and this one's a winner for me. It has many of the elements which carry over from my other passions and produces a workable product. If I can work lapidary or some of my other skills into it that would be grand but if not I'm not at all disappointed. Knife-making alone has enough intricacies to offer that keep me interested.
Eventually (soon) I will need to determine the proper method to "balance" a knife. This is easy when building a flyrod and probably fairly simple to determine when knife-making. The search function works well at this site BUT.... there is SO much information that comes back when a query is entered that it is an overwhelming (and time consuming) process to extract exactly what I was looking for. On the good side - I learn a lot of other things while sifting through that information.
After I get a few simple fixed-blade knives completed I plan to start learn about folding knives. Perhaps after that it will be time for me to start learning more about metals and begin the task of learning Metallurgy. I would absolutely love to craft my own blades. In the flyrod-building community that is the rough equivalent of... builders who craft their own rod blanks from bamboo (or other) vs builders who purchase pre-made production rod blanks and assemble them.
Again, really glad that I found this site and I appreciate the advice and help!

[Crex]

Most welcome....you've come to the right place. Very good people here.
Great analogy with the flyrods. Never made one but have used the heck out of them!
You really don't know how well a rod is going to perform for you until you get it out there and work it all day. Put it through the paces so to speak. Same with knives, balance is important in a long "work"day, but you have to add blade geometry, edge retention and handle comfort into the mix.
You'll do fine and the adventure of learning something new that you have the skills for is equally rewarding.
Yes.....nothing like the loading of a split bamboo rod that is well made. Wish we were closer, we could sure trade out skills.