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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 03-06-2015, 08:54 PM
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Small EDC Utility

Latest knife ~2 1/2" blade 4 1/2" handle. Would this be considered a wharncliffe?

Hardened to ~RC 60-61. Used an electric furnace and quenched in water. First time I've heat treated a knife before grinding. I'm planning on posting some pics of the grain when I can get a good pic (from a sample heat treated exactly the same way, with same hardness values even when tempered). It looks almost exactly the same as a broken nicholson file. Definitely going to do all my knives that way now on. As far as the wood, it was out of a grab bag from woodcraft so if you wood experts out there have an idea of what it might be please let me know.

The link goes to google drive where the pics are bigger.

https://drive.google.com/a/uah.edu/#...VhzZU45S0pWQ0k

Comments, critiques appreciated.
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:07 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Yes, I would consider it an sharncliffe, or at least close enough. Nice looking work there. What steel did you use? I suggest that you give it a good work out an see how that handle feels in the hand. If hardening the blade before grinding the bevels worked for you that's good. There are others that do it that way too.

Doug


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  #3  
Old 03-06-2015, 09:19 PM
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I used Aldo's 1084, I made the handle that way because I have a custom knife with a similar design and I really like the way it fits the hand.

Edit: similar handle design, but not the same. Also not the same blade style. I don't want ppl thinking I copied another's work.


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Old 03-06-2015, 11:30 PM
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By the way thanks for the compliment


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Old 03-07-2015, 12:19 AM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
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Great looking knife sir !!
I do like the roundness of that blade. Has personality to it.
Troy
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2015, 06:39 AM
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Very cool!
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Old 03-07-2015, 06:47 AM
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Not sure why you want to chance water quenches with 1084. You can get the same results with warmed canola oil and not risk the shock - crack potential of water. Water is "thin ice" for most blade steels.

Good looking knives, but agree with Doug. Use them hard before you settle on that handle shape. Your hand will tell you if it's right or not.
Pics not detailed enough to ID wood....but it looks good.


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  #8  
Old 03-07-2015, 07:14 AM
pcpc201 pcpc201 is offline
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Wood looks like redwood burl, also agree with Crex on the quench.

Good looking work though.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2015, 07:31 AM
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Thanks guys,

I did the water quench as a test of a sample prior to heat treating the knife. I made two rectangular samples, heated them to 815 C in a temp controlled oven at work, and quenched one in canola oil(@135 F) and one in water. Then, I hardness tested and broke each sample. The sample I quenched in water had a grain just like a broken nicholson file, the sample I quenched in canola oil had a grain that looked a little big. I then brinell tested with a 3000 kg load(3000 so I could convert to RC). The water sample tested higher that the tester could measure(>RC 63). The canola oil quenched one only measured in the 40's. That's why I went with the water quench for the knife.

Again, this quench was done prior to grinding the bevels so I wasn't too worried about quenching in water. Is this why the canola oil didn't harden the rectangular steel sample? Do you have to have already ground bevels to get the hardness you need>


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Old 03-07-2015, 07:46 AM
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Hunter nice grind lines , well done , handle material is interesting as well but kinda hard to tell in pics.....


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Old 03-07-2015, 08:49 AM
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Something is wrong with your canola test. The water might give you a bit more hardness but canola should also give you above RC60. And no, it is not necessary to grind before HT in order to get the higher value. I would also say that 60-61 is too hard for a working hardness on a 1084 blade but that is a very small blade so you might get away with it. Test one, see if the edge will chip, stab one deep into a stump and twist it out sideways to see if the tip will snap off....


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Old 03-07-2015, 09:13 AM
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Yeah I was thinking the higher hardness might be good since it is a small utility type knife. I was hoping for a longer lasting edge and tip and I didn't think it would need the toughness of a larger knife that might see chopping and the like. That's also kinda why the handle is the shape it is, I pictured this knife doing the type of work a typical razorblade utility knife might do or maybe a pocket knife. I guess I might need to go down on the next one though, especially if it's larger, if you think it might get chippy.

Yeah I didn't think the grinding thing really mattered much I was just thinking maybe it might cool off faster. I wonder if my problem was the amount of oil I used. I'll go up on volume and do another test.


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Old 03-07-2015, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE: if you think it might get chippy.

Yes, I think it might get chippy but the way to know is by testing.

Grinding before/after can matter but, as far as the HT is concerned, the advantage probably comes out on the after HT side of the equation. If you HT an unground blade then all areas of the blade have a chance at being at the target hardness. When you HT a ground blade the thinner sections can be hotter than the thicker sections which means the thin sections can end up with coarser grain (or they could be OK and the thick sections might be undercooked). So, it does matter but exactly how it matters can depend on how well you control the heat. One thing about grinding after HT though - if you do happen to have much decarb on the blade you're certain to grind it all off when grinding your bevels...


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Old 03-07-2015, 02:11 PM
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You're 100% right about testing. This is a late present so I won't get to abuse it but I will another one.

I don't care if I have to buy extra belts, I'm hooked on heat treating first.

Thanks again.everyone. I always learn a ton just by the comments and critiques you give.


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Old 03-08-2015, 05:47 AM
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How big an oil reservoir are you using? How long are you soaking the steel at quench temp? How consistent is your RC testing? Obviously something is not right if you only got a 40. I consistently get 60+ with 1084 and canola. However once quenched, I do temper the blade back to get the working characteristics desired.
Even with that, hardness is overrated....too hard - too brittle too - difficult to sharpen.
If the knife is to become a "user" - one that can and will be used on a regular basis - moderation makes a difference.
Example: Lots of early Buck 110's wound up in drawers with the tip broke off and scary rough grind marks along the cutting edge. Why? Too hard to sharpen by the average user and too brittle. Why make something that fits those parameters?

Your subject heading indicates these are intended EDC/Utility knives. Implying they are intended to be used regularly. Even with small blades, once the tip is broken and the edge chipped, it becomes less of a "user". Lot of work for one to become a cigar box resident. I always recommend making the knife user friendly.
Not saying there are not times when a little harder is not better, just not all the time.

Ray pretty much covered it, plus continued emphasis on testing. Very important. You won't really know until you do.


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